I have found this topic of voter suppression very interesting. I have never been deeply interested in Politics until things began to turn so uncivil that I had to attempt to understand how politics could divide so many in such hateful and harmful ways.
Until I participated in a BRAVER ANGELS Workshop I, honestly, did not realize that Voter Suppression was something that was seen as such a major problem.
I am still very uneducated about the issue but, on it's face, sounds like a TERRIBLE INJUSTICE. But likewise, it seems that there is the possibility of too much leniency that could result in the danger of fraudulent voting. I don't understand why both SUPPRESSION and FRAUD should not be topics of equal concern.
I fully understand the arguments that the Fraudulent Voting was considered "not widespread enough to have changed the Election outcome", which was never my personal concern.
But, what I DO care about is that ANY fraudulent vote UNFAIRLY DISPLACES someone's vote who had the LEGAL RIGHT to have their vote counted for the candidate of their choice.
I'm very confused by the nonchalant attitude that seems to gloss over the fact that ANY fraudulent vote was not acceptable.
I would be very interested to find JUST WHO would have no problem surrendering their vote to a fraudulent vote? Are there any volunteers? Count me out.
I hesitate to write the first comment on such a fraught topic. There are roughly 20 million illegal immigrants in the US. Each of them has already flouted the law. You can understand why one might think they would do it again by voting. You must show ID to buy cigarettes or beer, board a plane, cash a check, or pick up your held mail. Why not to vote? There can only be one reason: Democrats want illegals to vote. Republicans don't. It is that simple.
That’s a huge leap in logic to say that Democrats want “illegals” to vote because they oppose laws that make it harder to vote. There has been no evidence that undocumented immigrants vote in large numbers, or even small numbers. The usual objection to a voter ID requirement is that often the marginalized have less access to accepted IDs, e.g., the poor, the disabled, and the very elderly. They may not have the money, the transportation, or the necessary documentation. I actually think the workaround in the GA law to not having an ID (as explained in this post) makes some sense. But again, if the evidence isn’t there that a problem exists, why make it harder to vote in the first place?
Mitch - Isaac here at this very newsletter has dedicated large amounts of time fact-checking, investigating, and reporting on claims of fraud. Here are two examples.
I would also point out that requests to prove something DIDN'T happen are much more fraught than requests to prove something DID happen. The burden of proof is on the person alleging fraud. Thus far I've seen no evidence there was any.
Democrats do not even want them called illegals. We see few reports of illegal voting because, right now, there is absolutely no way to know whether many who vote are citizens, or not. The US is unique among nations in this respect. Of course, we are also the only modern nation with open borders. Election integrity is impossible without knowing who cast each ballot. It is, therefore, presently impossible here.
I, too, share your confusion over the lax attitude toward a Voter ID Requirement. One of our most precious rights as American Citizens would seem to warrant extra safe-guards to guarantee that those who have a right to vote can prove, with some credible ID, that they have earned that right.
Having just become aware of the problem of Voter Suppression, which I can only believe must be a valid complaint with the many loud voices protesting it, I still do not have an understanding of how expecting someone to have a valid ID constitutes Voter Suppression.
What is it that keeps an American Citizen from securing an ID?
Is it the type of ID that is required? I have always shown my Driver's License without considering what other ID is considered valid to place a vote. That's thoughtlessness (ignorance) on my part, but not meant to be uncaring or unconcerned.
I also understand that getting to the polls can be a problem for many people, but how does that constitute wanton suppression? It would seem to me that with dedicated community action that problem could be addressed for those needing to get to the polls.
The thought of a nationwide, unsolicited mail-out of ballots blows my mind! I don't understand how this could be considered an acceptable way to put ballots in people's hands?! We know that mail is illegally taken from mailboxes by the unscrupulous in search of gift cards, cash, etc.
I do recall hearing that there are states that have done this very thing. Are there many that do this? And if so, do they maintain records of the ballots that have been turned in as opposed to those that are not used?
And last but not least, with so many undocumented immigrants in the country, just how serious is the risk of those in this position casting an illegal vote? (Not requiring a valid ID would seem to pose some degree of risk.)
Thanks for helping to educate me in any way that you can!
I have found this topic of voter suppression very interesting. I have never been deeply interested in Politics until things began to turn so uncivil that I had to attempt to understand how politics could divide so many in such hateful and harmful ways.
Until I participated in a BRAVER ANGELS Workshop I, honestly, did not realize that Voter Suppression was something that was seen as such a major problem.
I am still very uneducated about the issue but, on it's face, sounds like a TERRIBLE INJUSTICE. But likewise, it seems that there is the possibility of too much leniency that could result in the danger of fraudulent voting. I don't understand why both SUPPRESSION and FRAUD should not be topics of equal concern.
I fully understand the arguments that the Fraudulent Voting was considered "not widespread enough to have changed the Election outcome", which was never my personal concern.
But, what I DO care about is that ANY fraudulent vote UNFAIRLY DISPLACES someone's vote who had the LEGAL RIGHT to have their vote counted for the candidate of their choice.
I'm very confused by the nonchalant attitude that seems to gloss over the fact that ANY fraudulent vote was not acceptable.
I would be very interested to find JUST WHO would have no problem surrendering their vote to a fraudulent vote? Are there any volunteers? Count me out.
Well said Rita.
I hesitate to write the first comment on such a fraught topic. There are roughly 20 million illegal immigrants in the US. Each of them has already flouted the law. You can understand why one might think they would do it again by voting. You must show ID to buy cigarettes or beer, board a plane, cash a check, or pick up your held mail. Why not to vote? There can only be one reason: Democrats want illegals to vote. Republicans don't. It is that simple.
That’s a huge leap in logic to say that Democrats want “illegals” to vote because they oppose laws that make it harder to vote. There has been no evidence that undocumented immigrants vote in large numbers, or even small numbers. The usual objection to a voter ID requirement is that often the marginalized have less access to accepted IDs, e.g., the poor, the disabled, and the very elderly. They may not have the money, the transportation, or the necessary documentation. I actually think the workaround in the GA law to not having an ID (as explained in this post) makes some sense. But again, if the evidence isn’t there that a problem exists, why make it harder to vote in the first place?
Please name your source as to there not being evidence that a problem of fraudulent voting exists. I would like to investigate further it’s claims.
Mitch - Isaac here at this very newsletter has dedicated large amounts of time fact-checking, investigating, and reporting on claims of fraud. Here are two examples.
https://www.readtangle.com/p/david-becker-election-fraud-claims
https://www.readtangle.com/p/election-fraud-claims-debunked-donald-trump
I would also point out that requests to prove something DIDN'T happen are much more fraught than requests to prove something DID happen. The burden of proof is on the person alleging fraud. Thus far I've seen no evidence there was any.
Democrats do not even want them called illegals. We see few reports of illegal voting because, right now, there is absolutely no way to know whether many who vote are citizens, or not. The US is unique among nations in this respect. Of course, we are also the only modern nation with open borders. Election integrity is impossible without knowing who cast each ballot. It is, therefore, presently impossible here.
Shawn,
I, too, share your confusion over the lax attitude toward a Voter ID Requirement. One of our most precious rights as American Citizens would seem to warrant extra safe-guards to guarantee that those who have a right to vote can prove, with some credible ID, that they have earned that right.
Having just become aware of the problem of Voter Suppression, which I can only believe must be a valid complaint with the many loud voices protesting it, I still do not have an understanding of how expecting someone to have a valid ID constitutes Voter Suppression.
What is it that keeps an American Citizen from securing an ID?
Is it the type of ID that is required? I have always shown my Driver's License without considering what other ID is considered valid to place a vote. That's thoughtlessness (ignorance) on my part, but not meant to be uncaring or unconcerned.
I also understand that getting to the polls can be a problem for many people, but how does that constitute wanton suppression? It would seem to me that with dedicated community action that problem could be addressed for those needing to get to the polls.
The thought of a nationwide, unsolicited mail-out of ballots blows my mind! I don't understand how this could be considered an acceptable way to put ballots in people's hands?! We know that mail is illegally taken from mailboxes by the unscrupulous in search of gift cards, cash, etc.
I do recall hearing that there are states that have done this very thing. Are there many that do this? And if so, do they maintain records of the ballots that have been turned in as opposed to those that are not used?
And last but not least, with so many undocumented immigrants in the country, just how serious is the risk of those in this position casting an illegal vote? (Not requiring a valid ID would seem to pose some degree of risk.)
Thanks for helping to educate me in any way that you can!